Josu De Miguel: “El PP, el PSOE y C’s ya no hablan de la misma cosa con respecto al desafío secesionista”

Conversación tranquila de @jmfrancas con Josu de Miguel, profesor de derecho constitucional de la UAB.   blog: http://www.noentiendonada.es, You tube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUGcEzxyMJwuOCBNnjwPDxg?view_as=subscriber   JMF: ¿Se respeta la Constitución realmente? Josu De Miguel:...
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Conversación tranquila de @jmfrancas con Josu de Miguel, profesor de derecho constitucional de la UAB.

 

blog: http://www.noentiendonada.es,

You tube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUGcEzxyMJwuOCBNnjwPDxg?view_as=subscriber

 

JMF: ¿Se respeta la Constitución realmente?

Josu De Miguel: Es una buena pregunta. En términos generales, mucho más de lo que la opinión pública y el ciudadano de a pie puede creer. En cualquier caso, quizá las Constituciones han perdido una cierta dimensión normativa como consecuencia del proceso de integración europea y la globalización, sobre todo en materia socioeconómica.

JMF: Pero la integración no cambia per se las Constituciones, ¿no?

Josu De Miguel: En términos formales, no. Tenemos, no obstante, nuestra reforma del art. 135 CE, que venía obligada en la ratificación de algunos instrumentos financieros comunitarios. Además, en gran medida, la proliferación de derecho material europeo, que es muy grande, y la interpretación de las libertades económicas, ha obligado a una intensa acomodación por parte de los operadores jurídicos nacionales. Por último, tenemos las transformaciones presupuestarias, que condiciona la dirección política de los Gobiernos nacionales y a veces obliga a reinterpretar algunas disposiciones constitucionales.

JMF: Vamos, que cada vez un Estado como el nuestro tiene menos autonomía…

Josu De Miguel: Efectivamente. La UE supone una “fuga de soberanía” al atribuir nuevas competencias a su sistema político. El problema es que al no haberse “politizado” o democratizado esa fuga, las instituciones nacionales terminan entrando en crisis.

JMF: ¿La UE secuestra de hecho nuestra la democracia?

Josu De Miguel: No lo diría de forma tan taxativa. La UE es necesaria para compensar la pérdida de potencia del Estado. Sin embargo, se potencia la huída del conflicto sociopolítico hacia un conjunto organizativo donde no hay un equilibrio entre las dimensiones burocráticas y democráticas. Habermas lo explica muy bien en sus libros. Por ejemplo, la proliferación de soberanismos de las naciones sin Estado se entiende por esa situación de indeterminación institucional.

JMF: ¿Qué hay que hacer entonces?

Josu De Miguel: Bueno, algunos atisban una renacionalización del poder, aunque no estoy seguro de que eso sea factible. Lo cierto es que ahora mismo la UE ha perdido confianza entre los ciudadanos por dos motivos: el Brexit (que puede tener un impacto mayor al esperado) y la crisis migratoria, para la que la sociedad europea no está preparada.

JMF: ¿La crisis migratoria puede romper la UE?

Josu De Miguel: La crisis migratoria puede quebrar la UE por pérdida de legitimidad ciudadana. La crisis de Siria, la explosión demográfica de África y el flujo de ciudadanos de otras áreas del planeta, obliga a establecer mecanismos federales migratorios, una perspectiva de integración cultural común y una concienciación ciudadana de la obligación moral y las necesidades estructurales para recibir ciudadanos de otras áreas no europeas. Sin esas premisas, corremos el riesgo de que aparezcan opciones políticas extremas que, desgraciadamente, están en el ADN de los europeos y su historia.

JMF: ¿No corremos más riesgo de extremismos si la inmigración ilegal campa a sus anchas?

Josu De Miguel: La verdad es que los números migratorios permanecen estables, diría que es una percepción mediática trasladada de forma irresponsable. Pero insisto, no hay políticas de inmigración, como podía ser el caso de Canadá o Israel. En cualquier caso, no soy experto en el tema.

JMF: A raíz del ‘proces’ muchas voces hablan de actualizar la Constitución, ¿lo harías?

Josu De Miguel: Bueno, la sociedad española es muy “legista”. A diferencia de otros países europeos, seguimos creyendo que la Constitución y su reforma es una solución al problema territorial. Como Josep M. Castellà, haría una reforma constitucional pero para renovar aspectos institucionales y democráticos, que fueran dentro de un paquete territorial o a la inversa. Ahora bien, nuestros problemas territoriales tienen carácter de falta integración de los nacionalismos y una cultura federal escasamente desarrollada.

JMF: ¿Ves solución a estos problemas territoriales?

Josu De Miguel: Sinceramente: lo veo complicado. Tenemos que preguntarnos si los nacionalismos son compatibles con el federalismo. El nacionalismo vasco habla de un confederalismo foralista de imposible articulación, mientras que el catalán ha entrado en una deriva secesionista de difícil reconducción. Ahora bien, hay que perseverar, a pesar de que la sociedad española haya entrado en una fase de cansancio que puede producir un desistimiento en la solución de la crisis territorial.

JMF: ¿Cansancio? ¿Pueden ganar por agotamiento?

Josu De Miguel: Sin duda. Son 6 años de “procés”. Evidentemente, hay otros ejemplos que desmienten mi perspectiva, es el caso de Canadá o Escocia. Sin embargo, la crisis catalana es sistémica y puede extenderse al resto de España.

JMF: ¿Eres pesimista entonces en esta cuestión?

Josu De Miguel: Mucho. Me preocupa el discurrir que está adoptando la reforma del Estatuto vasco, que parece volver por los fueros del Plan Ibarretxe. Un segundo frente territorial, roto el consenso constitucional en las Cortes, tras la elección de Sánchez, puede ser muy peligroso.

JMF: ¿No te fías de Sánchez entonces?

Josu De Miguel: El problema no es Sánchez, más bien la concreción de una moción de censura de rechazo al PP que rompe el consenso político que se había armado tras el 27 de octubre de 2017. El PP, el PSOE y Cs ya no hablan de la misma cosa con respecto al desafío secesionista. Es un gran triunfo del independentismo, sin duda.

JMF: Gracias Josu, un abrazo y me gustaría seguir pronto con más cuestiones. El lector quedará con hambre seguro.

Josu De Miguel: Gracias a ti y hasta la próxima!!

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Nacido en Manresa, (Barcelona). Licenciado en Ciencias Biológicas (UB). Ex profesor (UAB), ex editor (Editorial Labor), ex político (Ayto de L'Hospitalet y Parlament de Catalunya) y ahora periodista.
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